So, tubal ligation. Last night, there was a twitter-discussion on the concept, and how in BC it’s impossible to get one under 30-35 if you don’t have kids or don’t have a serious medical condition that could impact your child raising/pregnancy capabilities.
I’ve asked my doctor for a tubal for years between 22 & now (30). Couldn’t get one. And I’ll be up front: Yes, I’m actually considering changing my stance on childfree, maybe. Yes, it’s partially because my partner sorta,maybe,might want kids. One day. So it’s been shelved for now.
But if my doctor had gone ahead and listened to me? I’d have been fine with my decision — there are other options available if I absolutely HAD to have children. Personal responsibility is damn important to me, whether I’m 21, 31, 51, 91, whatever.
What REALLY kills me is that I know a woman who, at 24, had her second kid. One that she maybe wasn’t equipped for — the father of both of her children was in prison, they were no longer together, she was unemployed and unskilled. She was pretty irresponsible, a bit of a party girl, and now she had two kids to deal with. While she was getting her c-section, drugged to the gills and literally IN THE MIDST of having a baby, they convinced her to sign off on a tubal, and snipped her up while she was under the knife.
She regretted it pretty much the minute it was done. And that was … about 8 or 9 years ago. Said woman is now a nurse. Her kids are happy, healthy, smart — she’s done a damn good job raising them, especially considering her initial circumstances. She totally stepped up to the challenge.
And she? SHE is pissed that she got a tubal — and I think she has every right to be.
And what a fucking bizarre world it is when a doctor can pressure a young “white trash” mother into getting a tubal under duress, but won’t give one to responsible adults who’ve made a decision about their fertility.
Beyond that, the people I’ve known who were able to get tubals under 30 either had a debillitating illness (one that would affect their ability to give birth, but not negate it by any stretch — these women simply didn’t want children regardless of their bodies complaints.) I know one who had a kid, and was able to get it done — after rigorous questioning, like “What happens if your kid dies?” Newsflash: They’re not goldfish. You don’t just go get another one just because you accidentally forgot to feed this one, whoops. Still, counselling beforehand is a good idea… but then you accept their decision.
I didn’t know jack shit at 22, and I’m pretty sure I don’t know jack shit now either to be honest. But I’m still pretty capable of living with permanent decisions. We allow young women to get boob jobs, abortions, tattoos, and hey, babies — all things that PLENTY of people regret after it’s said and done. But we don’t allow them to get their tubes tied? Where’s the sense in that?
I don’t like to admit that I’m maybe changing my mind, because I feel like I dilute the arguments of the childfree. (Look! See! There’s someone who hit 30 and changed her mind! THAT COULD BE YOU!) Sure, it might be. And I always acknowledged that. I COULD change my mind.
But it’s still my call. If I’d had a tubal, that would have been my decision, and mine alone. If I regret it, fine, I regret it. I’ve read stats that say 30% of women under 30 who get tubals regret it. What about the other 70% who were perfectly happy with their choice? And when you read those stats — how many of them were coerced into it because they didn’t fit the doctors idea of what a young mother should be? I thought we got rid of eugenics.
What pisses me off is ANY woman being told that she doesn’t have the right to make decisions concerning her body. How is this any different from telling a woman she can’t have an abortion?
And it absolutely is a womans issue: Men have no problem getting vasectomies, pre-30, no kids, no illness. If men can get snipped, why can’t women?
… Because of the ‘magic of motherhood’ and blah de blah – men can get snipped because we have this cult of babies in our society that enshrined motherhood as the highest good, but still views fatherhood as optional. Things are changing with our demographic, but doctors and public policy often lag a generation or two behind. On the other hand, a friend of mine found a doctor willing to do it for her at 19, and the funny thing was that apparetly he was in his late 50s. So maybe I’m wrong. But anyway :) Blah de blah!! =) It’s sanctimonious crap, whatever the reasons.
I don’t think it is different than telling a woman she can’t have an abortion.
You’re right. It is a woman’s issue. I think if I was considering getting my tubes tied, I’d want the same amount of consideration, support, questioning, counseling that women get (or are offered) while looking into abortion. It’s a huge decision that can’t be taken lightly, but ultimately, we’re able to make our own decisions about our lives and bodies.
Great response. :)
I think the assumption is that men know their own minds better than women do. Bah! That being said, vasectomies are a) less invasive and involve shorter recovery time, and b) easier to reverse.
I’m not opposed to disallowing such drastic solutions to fertility for anyone under a certain age, though. I honestly don’t think any 25 year old can know for certain how he or she will feel at 35.
I’m not opposed to disallowing such drastic solutions to fertility for anyone under a certain age, though. I honestly don’t think any 25 year old can know for certain how he or she will feel at 35.
But as Donna says in her post: “We allow young women to get boob jobs, abortions, tattoos, and hey, babies — all things that PLENTY of people regret after it’s said and done.” No, we don’t know how anyone will feel about any decision ten years later into the future, but this is the only major decision that we don’t allow women to make for themselves (at least here in Canada where it is legal to get abortions). If we are raising the age limit for consent for this, why not raise it for everything else too?
When we went and saw the doctor for Dave to get the snip we got the ‘what would you do if one your children died?’ question, which we both thought was pretty bizarre.
I think we looked at him confusedly and replied “Only have the 2 kids left?’
So they are asking that of the fellas, too.
(Side note: Having Dave hopped on pain meds? Heeheehee ;))
According to the Internet, Leslie, tubals can be reversed in greater than 70% of cases these days – vasectomies are 95% – 70% (success goes down the longer it’s been since the operation). So it’s not like it used to be. I can see the “what if you change your mind?” thing, but even that’s not all that relevant – if it’s a HUGE deal, it can be corrected via elective surgery. So I’d argue that tubals aren’t really any more “serious” than vasectomies these days in that respect; the only difference is that it’s a laproscopic surgery that has to be done on a table; but it’s still just day surgery and takes under an hour.
So the real issue is the fact that we don’t think women know their own minds as much as men do. Which is crap, as we all know :)
Lea: Interesting that he was asked that; in a way it’s good that men are treated equally, and I do understand why doctors second-guess patients, because some of them can be really crazy… but AFAIK getting a patient to wait six months or a year after they request it should be more than enough due diligence in almost all cases.
So the little breeder gets the baby-maker turned off, and her life actually has a chance to recover because kid 3, 4, 5 never shows up, but she’s pissed at the doctor who likely saved her from a life of serial pregnancy? Learn from this girls! Give birth to your white trash kids in ditches so that mean doctors can’t stage an intervention on your out of control life.
I hope kids 1 and 2 are sending the doctor Christmas cards every year, but I doubt it.
That is the most patronizing crap I’ve heard in a long time.
“the father of both of her children was in prison, they were no longer together, she was unemployed and unskilled. She was pretty irresponsible, a bit of a party girl, and now she had two kids to deal with”
This is an out of control life. This is how you presented her.
You think dog vomit is like being a parent? I will top my previous patronzing crap level and say you know *nothing*. NOTHING. Until you realize through a fog of sleep deprivation that you both love the child in your arms and yet understand at a cellular level why some kids get shaken to death, you have no idea what it means to be a parent and you have no idea how hard it is to do a good job of raising a child.
Two kids? Single mother? Unskilled? That doctor gave her the opporunity to save her life. She took it and ran; good for her.
Did you miss the part about “regretting it the second it was done”? Being coerced into it while she was drugged and in pain? I don’t care if it was the right decision, the wrong decision, or what kind of decision it was. That ain’t informed consent.
And that’s the kicker: A lot of us CAN give our _informed_ consent, and we can’t do a damn thing. I think that’s the ticket: You wanna get sterilized? Tell them you’re on welfare.
Jeff, you’re right. I don’t know what it’s like to be a parent. So what? What’s that got to do with anything? For years, I never wanted to. I’m still not sure I do. I don’t see how this has to do with taking away someones choices.
But as a society, we decided a long time ago that eugenics is bad. People have the right to fuck up their lives if they want, and it is ABSOLUTELY NOT your place — or anyone elses — to decide for them.
Hey, we’ve found some common ground! We agree that people should be able to fuck up their lives however they see fit!
For the greater debate, yes, it was wrong that it was done to her, and yes, you should be allowed to have it done as soon as you reach the age of consent. The right to do things begins with the right to do things to yourself. I’m all for legalizing pretty much everything that doesn’t involve abusing animals or kids.
That said, something happened to her; some folks have cancer happen and they deal with it, some have car accidents, MS, congential defects, and they deal with it. What happened to her was unfair, and likely saved her life and made for a far better life for the two kids who were already here, in the world, making demands and having needs. It’s better than a lot of things that happen to other people.
One closer: the second the first kid was born, her right to be fuckup was suspended until she’d successfully raised him/her. Once you have a child, your life is not your own; it belongs to the kid.
She had the right choose to get pregnant or not, the right to carry to term or terminate, the right to raise it herself or put it up for adoption, and when she chose “A” for all three, her right to be a fuckup was suspended.